On the election, and stuff.

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Bunyip
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Postby Bunyip » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:29 am

:^:

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SporkAndrew
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Postby SporkAndrew » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:18 am

Great jorb, guys.

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OMGBEES
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Postby OMGBEES » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:25 am

Thanks, it was hard.

(NO.)

Here, if you don't have a license proof of residency gets funky. You need all kinds of shit, and last I checked what they accepted was pretty limited. It's not de jure required, but it is de facto required.

On the plus side, you can register just before you vote.

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Bag of Ass
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Postby Bag of Ass » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:09 pm

After three presidential elections, I finally voted for the guy who ended up winning (the previous losers were Al Gore and John Kerry).

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Postby hobokenbob » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:56 pm

Bag of Ass wrote:After three presidential elections, I finally voted for the guy who ended up winning (the previous losers were Al Gore and John Kerry).


and that's the reason. Gore and Kerry, I have much respect for them, but they were losers. lovable losers maybe, but losers and they were appropriate picks as the leaders of a party of losers.

Obama impresses, he's a winner. I hope he can reshape the democratic party into winners but thay may be too much to ask.
In fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 2003.

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dogmeat
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Postby dogmeat » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:26 pm

Obama taking 8 previously Republican states was somewhat awesome. :)

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OMGBEES
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Postby OMGBEES » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:49 pm

Man, I'm already seeing people doing the "he doesn't have the will of the people, just the will of the coasts" bullshit. That's so assinine, the only thick band of red states are in the non-coastal west. That's not the will of the people, that's the will of the coyotes, the plains, and the will of vast, unpopulated tracks of land. It's effectively the will of the person.

No offense, NI.

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Miel
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Postby Miel » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:11 pm

Did these people make the same type of comments when Bush lost the popular vote but still won the presidency?

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Tobliz
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Postby Tobliz » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:19 pm

No, of course not. That would be being logically consistent.

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Postby Bag of Ass » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:21 pm

What is the deal with the electoral system, anyway? Maybe one of you guys who pays attention to politics can explain to me why it's better than just doing the popular vote like everything else seems to do. Fiancée tried to explain it, but she just said that it was a way to do checks and balances, but it just seems to me like the electoral system is a different, more arcane way of counting and doesn't really check/balance anything.

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Miel
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Postby Miel » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:23 pm

Tobliz wrote:No, of course not. That would be being logically consistent.


Ok, then I'm not insane. Because I seem to remember that disagreeing with or saying anything bad about the President (in this case President Bush) was considered treasonous only a few short years ago...

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Tobliz
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Postby Tobliz » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:42 am

Miel wrote:
Tobliz wrote:No, of course not. That would be being logically consistent.


Ok, then I'm not insane. Because I seem to remember that disagreeing with or saying anything bad about the President (in this case President Bush) was considered treasonous only a few short years ago...


if any of your conservative friends whine about Obama winning, tell them "it's your country. Love it or leave it." It shut up my conservative friend.

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Tobliz
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Postby Tobliz » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:43 am

Bag of Ass wrote:What is the deal with the electoral system, anyway? Maybe one of you guys who pays attention to politics can explain to me why it's better than just doing the popular vote like everything else seems to do. Fiancée tried to explain it, but she just said that it was a way to do checks and balances, but it just seems to me like the electoral system is a different, more arcane way of counting and doesn't really check/balance anything.


Contrary to popular belief, the founding fathers were very paranoid of majority rule/true democracy. "Tyranny of the majority" and so on. They saw the electoral system as a way of allowing democracy while restraining the possibility of that tyranny.

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OMGBEES
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Postby OMGBEES » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:57 am

Bag of Ass wrote:What is the deal with the electoral system, anyway? Maybe one of you guys who pays attention to politics can explain to me why it's better than just doing the popular vote like everything else seems to do. Fiancée tried to explain it, but she just said that it was a way to do checks and balances, but it just seems to me like the electoral system is a different, more arcane way of counting and doesn't really check/balance anything.

The idea is that if the unwashed masses elect their favorite goat to president, you have someone standing in the way that can make a rational choice. Someone well-educated, white, and land-owning.

It's not better, in my opinion, and in the opinion of most people. But political processes like that have a tremendous amount of inertia. It's very difficult to change their direction.

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Postby Eolh » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:06 am

There's also the thing where the founders were keenly aware of the importance of statehood, at least in the early days of the Union. It was obvious to them that states were very often like little mini-cultures of their own, and they were worried about some areas of country growing so large population-wise that someone could win the presidency by simply catering just to that state. The electoral college was a way to blunt that sort of thing somewhat, and to empower smaller states to have a bit larger say than their populations would indicate.

In particular, the founders were deathly afraid of industrial states shitting on farm states.
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Postby Kauser » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:25 am

and it still fills that purpose.


On the election, I do have to say that I'm hopeful. The only thing I don't want to see is a filibuster proof senate. Neither side should be allowed to be , more or less, uncontested. Other than that, I'm pleased with the results
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Tobliz
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Postby Tobliz » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:24 am

While I can understand the attitude that one doesn't want a party to have free rein, it's kinda weird hearing that and "omg the government moves too slowly" together from the same people at different points.

Another point I'd make is that similar situations like the filibuster-proof senate pop up in Canada and Great Britain sometimes and it doesn't seem to hurt them.

Kauser
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Postby Kauser » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:33 am

I don't think I've ever complained about congress moving too slowly.
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Tobliz
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Postby Tobliz » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:36 am

Oh, not you specifically. Just a general observation.

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OMGBEES
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Postby OMGBEES » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:40 am

I have, I think we should give them all bionic tank treads.


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