400 eyes for an eye

Classified, Top Secret, Burn After Reading

Moderators: pablo banquo, Gobo, Bag of Ass, SporkAndrew

User avatar
Too-Much-Coffee Mistress
Old Maid
Posts: 6045
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 5:52 am

400 eyes for an eye

Postby Too-Much-Coffee Mistress » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:15 pm

Israel is once again characteristic in its over-response to something. 400 dead and over 1,000 wounded in response to sporadic fire of ancient rockets that rarely injure, let alone kill. I'm starting to wonder if Hamas even knows it's shooting at Israel; the way Israel continues to assimila... sorry, "extend its security border" into Palestinian territory, they may well think they're just doing target practice in their own borders when they're actually firing at newly-acquired Israeli territory.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081231/ap_ ... lestinians

Scary thing is, if you parse out the UN casualty figures in that article, not many of the civilian dead are counted as male. So apparently almost any adult male in Gaza is considered fair game.
"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking...the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
pablo banquo
Banjo Froggo
Posts: 6013
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 7:17 am
Location: Nantuckett

Postby pablo banquo » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:57 pm

I know a girl who's from Ashkalon, works for the IDF doing office work or something. Luckily for her she went on a holiday out of the country a few days before it all started. Haven't heard from her since then, might be able to get some insights into the whole fucked up mess once she's back online.
i before e except after a few beers

hobokenbob
Uncle Bob
Posts: 4802
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 11:29 pm
Location: Boston MA
Contact:

Postby hobokenbob » Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:00 pm

Lets not loose sight that Hamas are pretty despicable people, and unlike the US where we fight some imaginary ghost of "terrorism" in our heads and in hollywood, Isreal has to live with real attacks every day. Killing civilians sucks. Those civilians however should really consider not condoning the actions of the few among them that brought it upon them.

I really don't see peace in that region anytime soon anyway, poisonous religion and reciprocation of violence has gone on so long each party doesn't even see each other as human anymore. Let them slit each other's throats if that's what makes them happy. It's absolute hubris that any president of this upstart barely 250 year old country can meddle into the affairs of a 1400 year blood fued and bring peace.
In fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 2003.

Jason Mustian

User avatar
pablo banquo
Banjo Froggo
Posts: 6013
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 7:17 am
Location: Nantuckett

Postby pablo banquo » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:09 pm

I'm wondering how the rest of the arab nations are going to react.
i before e except after a few beers

Kauser
Son of Perdition
Posts: 9565
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 8:05 pm

Postby Kauser » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:07 am

They've already reacted the way they always react.

A lot blame Israel

Some (read Egypt) blame both.

Most of the fundamentalist theocracies are calling for all Muslims everywhere to carry out revenge strikes on any country that doesn't condemn Israel.

And then there's Iran that is just criticizing every Muslim country for only talking about the situation.

Also I guess I will throw back up my original statement, though a bit more even tempered.

Israel is once again characteristic in its over-response to something. 400 dead and over 1,000 wounded in response to sporadic fire of ancient rockets that rarely injure, let alone kill.


The whole beginning post in this thread was inflammatory, but this honestly surprised me, if you believe it. If any other two countries did something like this, there would be an all out war. Here is a page on the Qassam for anyone interested. the reason for the low fatality rate of the Qassam's fired into southern Israel is more than likely attributed to Bomb Shelters The Arrow TMD. Soon the Iron Dome MDS. The simple notion that there are countermeasures against the Qassam should never excuse the simple fact that people are Firing them. Breaking this down; Gaza is an autonomous region with it's own borders, it's main export used to be citrus fruit until that got fucked up; now they are primarily a third world stagnation; getting close, if not lapping Mogadishu. In short, this whole scenario would be akin to if I moved into your garden, and started lobbing quarter sticks of dynamite at your house; and the police recognized my rights to be in your garden, and had no power to make me stop what I was doing other than with child psychology, and a stern finger. Honestly, thinking any country is overreacting to ordinance coming over their borders is a little fucked up.
Do not call up what you cannot put down.

User avatar
Too-Much-Coffee Mistress
Old Maid
Posts: 6045
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 5:52 am

Postby Too-Much-Coffee Mistress » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:00 am

Not so much, I think, when you consider that this isn't a simple "they started it, and we're fighting back" situation. Were it that simple, I'd agree with you. But considering the pass Israel gets in terms of how it treats / has treated the Palestinians over many, many, many years, blowback should not be surprising.

This isn't about saying Israel should just sit there and take it, or that Hamas is justified, etc etc etc. This is about saying there needs to be a fundamental realignment in how the whole situation is perceived. Israel has their fair share of blame in this mess, and continued ignorance of that does not serve the situation at all. I'm not saying, to borrow your analogy, that if you moved into my garden and starting lobbing dynamite at my house that I would be unjustified in reacting; I'm saying that I would be overreacting if I razed your house, our neighbor's house, and the remainder of the block in retaliation, all the while blocking ambulances from coming into the cul-de-sac.

Did you know, for instance, that Israel just recently extended its security border again, cutting in half many legally-held Palestinian properties and kicking them off their land? Did you know that the IDF recently kicked a Palestinian family out of a home in southern Jerusalem that they'd been living in for 50 years, and moved an Israeli family in practically on their heels? That they continue to build settlements in complete disregard of treaties saying they would not? No killing of civilians is ever justified, but to not expect some sort of blowback from actions such as this is just stupid.
"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking...the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker." - Albert Einstein

Kauser
Son of Perdition
Posts: 9565
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 8:05 pm

Postby Kauser » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:34 pm

No offense, the analogy isn't quite true. The Gaza is still there. Though I'm almost certain it won't be in about a week (then it will be true). As far as Israel being blameless, I know it isn't. As far as Israel defending itself. I don't know where you went to school, or what your parents taught you, but what mine taught me was that if you ever get into a fight, finish it so there isn't another one. This is also the first time they've squared off against a Hamas controlled state, so it should be interesting. In all seriousness; the IDF probably has the most advanced military training and arsenal in the region; you'd think people would be fighting to not be near them.


The border deal is pretty fucked up though.


Also, lets not forget that in the Hamas Charter, it states explicitly that they will remove Israel from the map, and replace them.
Do not call up what you cannot put down.

User avatar
Too-Much-Coffee Mistress
Old Maid
Posts: 6045
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 5:52 am

Postby Too-Much-Coffee Mistress » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:20 am

The UN has now, at least temporarily, ceased aid delivery to Gaza because of attacks on their convoys and refugee camps by the Israeli forces. A UN contractor was killed in one attack after Israeli tanks fired on their position during the 3-hour ceasefire window Israel had agreed to provide for the delivery of aid supplies.

You know, at a certain point, 'benefit of the doubt' just goes right out the window.
"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking...the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker." - Albert Einstein

User avatar
Too-Much-Coffee Mistress
Old Maid
Posts: 6045
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 5:52 am

Postby Too-Much-Coffee Mistress » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:22 am

http://whiskeyfire.typepad.com/whiskey_ ... ation.html

As Glennzilla goes on to glumly observe, wingnuts -- the very people who have been so colossally and disastrously wrong about Iraq -- are completely in charge of the way Israel/Palestine is discussed in America. They have a monopoly on the definition of "legitimate" opinions about the conflict, the ones you can express officially. Hence they are able to get away with the most preposterous and insulting declarations -- that disagreeing with Israeli actions makes one an "anti-Semite"; that Israeli and American interests are identical; that criticizing Israel equals support for terrorists.


This is spot on. I can guarantee that when all is said and done, critiques of Israel's actions in this conflict will be so much dust in the wind. "They started it" ("They" being Hamas) is, as one commenter on that blog aptly points out, the sort of reasoning one expects in elementary school and not at all appropriate to internecine warfare between two groups of people that's been going on for much longer than most of us have been alive.
"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking...the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker." - Albert Einstein


Return to “Deep Throats”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest