Comedy is an insult you goons!

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Lobstrosity
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Postby Lobstrosity » Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:58 pm

Square721BT wrote:Please note: This is part of the slippery slope that Kauser mentioned. If you ban MP, by the same token, you should be banning Lob. Are you willing to do that?

Eh, just clean house and ban me, MP, and Square. Trust me, it'll make this a better place.

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Postby Dynagrip » Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:10 pm

:(

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Postby Square721BT » Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:57 pm

Bag of Ass wrote:This thread is a lot like a raid on Hillsbrad. There's a Horde town of level 20-ish players, and an Alliance town of 30-ish players. The Alliance will beat down the Horde in the area, so the Horde will call in higher level reinforcements, who proceed to beat down the Alliance. Then the Alliance calls in reinforcements, and it escalates from there. Then there are the random passersby who don't really want to fight but get caught up in the action anyway. One side might be temporarily victorious in their eyes, maybe the Alliance takes over Tarren Mill for a while, but it is all essentially futile because the guards respawn infinitely and beat back the invasion. Eventually people lose interest for a while, but it starts back up again in a little while. This is the way of the system.

You see how this thread is exactly like a raid on Hillsbrad?

You may be playing too much WoW, Bag.
Actually, I'd think it was really cool if I saw Jesus in my icecream too. A tyrannosaur in an F14 would be even cooler.
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Postby Bag of Ass » Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:04 pm

Grab a sword and fight the Horde!

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Postby Square721BT » Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:08 pm

Thanks, but no. I'm busy having fun.
Actually, I'd think it was really cool if I saw Jesus in my icecream too. A tyrannosaur in an F14 would be even cooler.

-Bunyip, a man for all seasonings.

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mia
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Postby mia » Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:19 pm

Square721BT wrote:From waht I understand, Rob and the crew came around long after the creation of the Pit of Hate. In the beginning, Psilar created the PoH to contain all the myraid flamewars that broke out all over M2 into one area so you could participate or avoid them as you saw fit. It started out as a thread, Bizkit made it a subforum. People who were around then think of it that way.

The later bunch of people used it as a place to creatively rant at eachother, apparently. It wasn't supposed to be nasty or anything, from what I've seen; it was a place that was supposed to be more intelligent than the bulk of M2. From what I gather, it was like our Ministry, but angstier.

So I think people have different ideas of what the PoH is supposed to be about.


Since there's a main forum for the regular discussions, with different sub forums for intelligence/rabble/and other things. What will you do in the Pit of Hate? I mean it's good to pour anger in here than anywhere else, than go through each thread targeting the person you are angry with. It's silly. You know what that leads to, you've been party to it.

At least we have a thread dedicated to it, sure it's mainly at MP, and him lashing out/anger over the picture being deleted. About comedy and why other people couldn't see it and comment on it. I'm sure it was tasteless, but it should be able to be shown, unless there's a huge mass of people that dislike the picture then it should have been deleted.

Banning MP is silly he hasn't even done any true trolling, except commenting like an idiot, and that's just an act.

And I lied about making only one comment. Damn you *fist in air*
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Postby Tweeg » Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:34 pm

and in the spirit of the pit of hate.

Mia, you have a flabby butt.
"He who seeks to fight trolls must take care; when you laugh at the Tweeg post, the Tweeg posts laughs at you." - OMGBEES

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Postby mia » Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:47 pm

Tweeg wrote:and in the spirit of the pit of hate.

Mia, you have a flabby butt.


Leave my flabby butt out of it!
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Postby Tweeg » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:06 am

mia wrote:
Leave my flabby butt out of it!


Gentlemen .... above quote could be used for some fun.

so ... make with the funny

and




GO
"He who seeks to fight trolls must take care; when you laugh at the Tweeg post, the Tweeg posts laughs at you." - OMGBEES

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Postby Square721BT » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:58 am

mia wrote:Since there's a main forum for the regular discussions, with different sub forums for intelligence/rabble/and other things. What will you do in the Pit of Hate? I mean it's good to pour anger in here than anywhere else, than go through each thread targeting the person you are angry with. It's silly. You know what that leads to, you've been party to it.

At least we have a thread dedicated to it, sure it's mainly at MP, and him lashing out/anger over the picture being deleted. About comedy and why other people couldn't see it and comment on it. I'm sure it was tasteless, but it should be able to be shown, unless there's a huge mass of people that dislike the picture then it should have been deleted.

Banning MP is silly he hasn't even done any true trolling, except commenting like an idiot, and that's just an act.

And I lied about making only one comment. Damn you *fist in air*


Oh, I'm not trying to defend the concept of "no hate in the PoH", I'm simply trying to highlight the fact that I think there's a misunderstanding and what I think the cause of it is.

MP didn't post a picture, he posted a reply to a picture that apparently was a bunch of the same thing over and over.

And I think MP's actual contribution to this thread is somewhere around 5 posts of 90 or so. :)
Actually, I'd think it was really cool if I saw Jesus in my icecream too. A tyrannosaur in an F14 would be even cooler.

-Bunyip, a man for all seasonings.

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Postby Square721BT » Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:00 am

Tweeg wrote:
mia wrote:
Leave my flabby butt out of it!


Gentlemen .... above quote could be used for some fun.

so ... make with the funny

and




GO

Alright.... Tweeg is Canadian!

Err, sorry Tweeg. It's like trying to listen to a radio next to a microwave. The powerful force of interference given off by your Caniadness prevents me from getting a signal.*

Note that this is probably nearly as geeky as Bag's WoW comment, and invalidates my comment there.
Actually, I'd think it was really cool if I saw Jesus in my icecream too. A tyrannosaur in an F14 would be even cooler.

-Bunyip, a man for all seasonings.

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Postby Too-Much-Coffee Mistress » Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:11 am

Square721BT wrote:
Too-Much-Coffee Mistress wrote:That just makes him insecure, not stupid. So while it might actually be an effective insult, it doesn't make the statement "An insult is an inflated truth" any more correct.

That seems like a semantic quibble to me, particularly if you view truths as subjective, which it sounds like most of us do. Either way, I think we can all agree with the statement "An effective insult plays on the fears or inadquecies of an individual by naming them publicly and inflating them."


Right. But I'd also add that a good deal of this discussion revolves around semantics.

I don't know what you're trying to say about crowd-depreciating humor. I'm not certain what you mean by that. And I really am not willing to accept that Franken gets up in frontt of a room full of right-wing Christians, and gets away with "Family Values are for morons!", I'm sorry. I think, TMCM, that you are warping reality in your hero-worship.


If you hadn't said that you didn't understand what I meant by crowd-depreciating humour, I would say that you were cherry picking to prove your point with the "Family Values" bit. Of course he doesn't do a joke like that. But he does do jokes to those crowds along the lines of "liberals can't afford my speaking fees, but you guys can... because you're rich, white bastards!" *wink wink, nudge nudge*". That's obviously not an exact quote, since it's not funny, but I don't have the quote itself in front of me at the moment.

Okay, that's totally avoiding thinking about the issue. "Ah, Nazis are evil! Case closed. Therefore, everyone will enjoy being told what they don't want to hear, so long as they are not evil!"


That's silly. Nazi's are evil, case closed, precisely. I'm not saying everything... in fact, most everything else is that cut and dried, but damn. Well, let's say more that Nazi beliefs are evil.

The essential point I was trying to make (which, in hindsight, was probably obvious) is that some "jokes", such as anti-semetic ones, are not funny and are decidedly stupid even if they appeal to a certain crowd. That may come off more like a judgement call than a straight-forward assessment, but I'm making it.

I mean, c'mon. Carrot Top found an audience. <-*A lame joke. Carrot Top's audiences are not automatically stupid.*

I'm not ready to believe in the existence of evil simply because it makes for a convenient argument - I'm sure as shit not ready to do so and then bitch about Christianity doing the same. At the same time, I'm not ready to concede that right-wing Republicans are vastly different from the Nazis - they share a decent number of the same beliefs. Remember that 70% of the populace now believes that Muslims should be forced to register. We're edging closer and closer to concentration camps.


Neither am I, and I wouldn't argue with you on this point. At least not as far as universal evil. But can an argument for things like Naziism really be made, especially so that racist humour in that context could be considered ok? I don't think so.

Note that this is probably nearly as geeky as Bag's WoW comment, and invalidates my comment there.


Moreso. But neither are as geeky as the computer conversation in Central. Nerds!

mia wrote:Leave my flabby butt out of it!


I would appreciate it if people would stop using the inappropriate descriptor of "flabby butt", and instead use the more proper "Pushin' Cushion." Thank you.
"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking...the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker." - Albert Einstein

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Postby mia » Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:32 am

Square721BT wrote:
Oh, I'm not trying to defend the concept of "no hate in the PoH", I'm simply trying to highlight the fact that I think there's a misunderstanding and what I think the cause of it is.

MP didn't post a picture, he posted a reply to a picture that apparently was a bunch of the same thing over and over.

And I think MP's actual contribution to this thread is somewhere around 5 posts of 90 or so. :)


The fact he posts, with multiple replies helps in this many paged debate over god knows what.
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Postby mia » Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:33 am

Too-Much-Coffee Mistress wrote:
mia wrote:Leave my flabby butt out of it!


I would appreciate it if people would stop using the inappropriate descriptor of "flabby butt", and instead use the more proper "Pushin' Cushion." Thank you.



:!:
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Postby Magic Placebo » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:45 pm

I'm going to try to get to the nitty gritty of this whole discussion and a little of the explosions there were about me.

I don’t really want to change what types of comedy people like or disapprove of, that might be why I took the general route. That or I felt the scenario seemed too overly similar, and when I was learning comedy I was becoming more and more aware. So I basically wanted to emulate how I learned it. Nothing intended to you Square, especially since you’ve shown me that you have more doubt in the people screaming than doubt in me. Not only that, but clarifying something that’s entertaining itself will do as much a good job of giving awareness than going through with how I gained it. The odds of people changing from what they like seem pretty slim and hopefully I won’t end up changing anything, but just clarifying something that’s plagueing a lot of people.

Edit: I just realized something else, I didn't take the general route. There was no freakin' "general" route.

As for the term of an insult being an inflated truth, the people who disagree (Or to be bluntly honest, disagree with their “religion”) with it seem to be more considering an insult to be something intentionally derogatory, damaging and very well pointed at another person, rather than taking the very definition of insult that I have stated and trying to link it with what they find funny. Adding someone’s definition to your own rather than setting it as its own place seems kind of dim to do.

Edit: I was more intending on what people find funny, rather than just what you yourself find funny. Sorry about that.

The two posts by Nobody Important were humility in work (I don’t consider it much humility since my definition of humility differs, but it works that way) in that they were just describing an exaggerated truth of how the event took place and what it was like. Basically a bit of poignant humility that is both intended and is the best way to get everyone in the event. Both of his posts would be just average events if he had just said “I had a tough time putting up and locking the umbrella” or “A frog fell and died when it hit the ground.” If it helps, think of insults as propaganda.

I’ve never read “A Modest Proposal”, but from the sounds of it, it more or less fits as a spoof or parody. Basically like “America: The Book” being a parody of a high school history book.

Lewis Black definitely isn’t a political satirist from what I can remember. Basically he’s that faux-intellectual (Such as Dennis Leary) who mostly ends up giving a rant over topical political agendas and social commentary, sort of like a voice of anger to help relate to others. There’s no humility at all with him, just the right words that’ll hit the popular crowd. Jon Stewart has a bit of humility in his bits and insults, while Mo Rocca is just a parody of the on the field journalist.

As for the safest way of someone not being offended, basically you avoid putting on a show to the people you are talking about. Just go with the majority of people who like your act, but even then you are not guaranteed to make everyone happy. Basically like Nobody Important’s posts, there’s bound to be someone so inept at intentional humility that they will tell you not to put yourself down. As for me being a total dick, don’t worry, I have an excuse. I think a lot of the high ranked comedians ended up going through being a total dick one time in their life. Basically it’s like finding a grayscale, you can’t describe it until you have gone to both extremes. The closest you’ll get to a safe insult when talking to the people you are insulting is an insult that gives respect while at the same time poking fun at a person. From what I can tell, being humble about your insults (Especially if they’re clichés), getting to know a person (Which can practically cause subconsciousness on some levels as to what we say to each other) and picking something not really obvious about someone’s culture are the best things at being respectful to another person.

Another safe route, which I full heartedly wish to get into since I believe it really helps out with children learning humility, is satire. Satire is basically a huge proportion of humility with a dash of insult to keep it alive. It always tries it’s best to seem natural or flow together. Cookie Monster’s “C is for cookie”, “The Office” (I think I saw a clip, it was a Christmas episode and one of the workers stuck a red nose on his crotch) and the songs from “Square One T.V.” are all satire in different levels. The Swedish Chef may be a bit stereotypical of a foreigner, but the humility in his stereotyping of foreigners seems too gaudy to really stick as something to link to any illegal-aliens or those who just crossed the border. Basically he was dropped for no reason at all.

Square, sorry about the confusion but my humor isn’t irony, it’s a careless practice in humility, but enough to leave some sort of opening to there being an insult noticed. Even though I do not try to flow with the conversation at hand, I’m still trying to make it as dumb enough of a reaction to not really be honest. Not everyone will get it or even like it for that matter, but hell, I don’t care about the majority. If you want more speculation, I’ve tried copying the style of satire out of Achewood strips at one point.

Now, about irony. I don’t think I’ve seen many people be ironic in a normal conversation, but I’m going to have to think about it. Irony is when an event that has a predictable outcome ends up with an unexpected ending. An example would be a man who lost his job, gets kicked out and scolded by his wife, when he comes back after thinking that she had calmed down to discuss the problems, he ends up alone when he is to see a note saying that she wants a divorce and that she had already planned ahead by cheating on him. In his constant anger, he takes his collapsible rifle in his briefcase and heads up to the nearest clock tower so he can relieve himself of his stress and grief. A dark irony would be that he gets up there and finally assembles his gun, only to be shot in the back of the head by a guy waiting on the rooftop who also wanted to shoot townsfolk. A more insulting irony would be that a man on a higher clock tower, right next to the clock tower that our friend is on, sees him and shoots him. A bit wackier but still insulting irony would that he went up to the clock tower just to release some stress at the newly opened shooting range and fun zone, that announced on the opening that they will give you free admission should you come with your own rifle.

I don’t think irony really is a solid part of comedy. Basically it’s for the quirky and odd happenings and is more or less an attempt to stay away from a cliché. Say for instance, instead of the man shooting anyone, he just ends up putting the rifle in his mouth and pulls the trigger.
Last edited by Magic Placebo on Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Tweeg » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:11 am

*crickets*
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Postby Square721BT » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:24 pm

I'd respond, but I'm perpetually exhausted from trying to play like 40 fucking games at a time.
Actually, I'd think it was really cool if I saw Jesus in my icecream too. A tyrannosaur in an F14 would be even cooler.

-Bunyip, a man for all seasonings.

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Postby hobokenbob » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:48 pm

Not all cheese with holes in it are actually swiss.
In fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 2003.

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Postby Square721BT » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:24 pm

Bob, there's a fine line between clever and cryptic.

Well, not very fine, really.

But you're still on the wrong side of it.
Actually, I'd think it was really cool if I saw Jesus in my icecream too. A tyrannosaur in an F14 would be even cooler.

-Bunyip, a man for all seasonings.

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Postby hobokenbob » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:29 pm

well thats entirely subjective! who made you judge of what's funny!!11one


edit: sorry. it's just that i'm too lazy to read that huge post. or most of the huge posts. really, i stopped being interested at like page 4
In fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 2003.

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